In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

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In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Charco on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:39 pm

*Original post by Don Vecta.

So yeah, by popular demand, I decided to play with Axel and trying to make a deep analysis about him. I know several community members are fond of him and I'm sure this thread will bring a lot of light to the ones who want to play hardcore with him.

I'll try to cover up all the three versions of him and post stuff related to them by post. Right now I'm starting with SOR1 Axel.

Movelist of SOR1 Axel (taken from the character movelist).

Axel Stone.

Normal attacks.

Rush combo - B B B B (SOR1 two long jabs, gut punch, mid roundhouse kick great range).
Back attack - B + C (SOR1 Forearm punch)
Special - A (SOR1 spinning dragon smash)
Special 2 - forward + A (SOR1 performs a 3-hit punch combo)

Jumping attacks.

Vertical jump attack - C then B (SOR1 does a side knee kick, knocks down)
Jump attack - forward + C then B (SOR1 Axel launches with a front knee attack, short range, knocks down.)
Diving attack - C then down + B (SOR1 dives with his two knees in an awkward sexy (lol) pose, doesn't knock down and leaves enemy open to combo or grab).

Running attacks.

Blitz (0 - 1 star) - forward forward + B Grand upper (Axel dashes and hits the enemies repeatedly with an ascending uppercut).
Blitz 2 (2 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning punch attack (lounges forward in an ascending/descending pattern spinning while punching).
Blitz 3 (3 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning grand upper (dashes in the same ascending/descending pattern, spin punch ending in uppercut).

Grab attacks (get close to an enemy).

Vault over opponent - Grab then C, you can switch from grabbing in front or from behind.
One-hit frontal knockdown - Grab then B (does a nasty headbutt)
Rush attack - Grab, hold forward + B B B (SOR1 knee bashes the opponent in the first two hits, then performs a third knee attack and finishes with an uppercut)
Backwards throw - Grab, hold backwards B (SOR1 performs a neck throw).
Grab from behind - Hold from behind or vault opponent if grabbing in front then B (SOR1 performs a German Suplex).

Weapon special attacks.

Pipe/Bat/Plank - forward forward + B (SOR1 runs and swings it to the opponent)
Sword/Katana - forward forward + B (SOR1 runs and performs an double slash attack)
Sword/Katana A attack - forward + A (remains in a stance blinking then unleashes a high range swipe, all in full invincibility)

Overview.

SOR1 Axel was modeled back in the day to be the perfect balanced character regarding speed, technique, damage and stamina. After SOR2, the balanced model was replaced by Blaze while the speedy character became Sammy, thus Axel in SOR2 became slightly more powerful and less speedy (kinda like Adam in SOR1).

SOR1 Axel has several advantages at his favor that I personally prefer him over the rest of the versions:

1) Faster. His moves are fast enough to perform well, same for his walking and running movement. His rush combo input it's fast enough to link several combos inside of it, thus, capable to pull out good damage.

2) Reach in ground moves. This is one of the departments that SOR2 and SOR3 Axels lack but SOR1 Axel doesn't. His reach it's not as long as Zan's or Rudra but it's competent enough to keep enemies at bay.

3) Good melee weapon handling. Pipe swing it's quick and has reach. Pipe special allows a very good end swipe that knocks down enemies approaching from behind. Knife and bottle reach is decent, not as good as it used to be the original SOR1 Axel but a lot better than the other 2 versions. Sword it's quite good even though has short lange but has godly speed and it's running special it's fine as well, pretty damaging.

4) Great comboability (yes, I made up that word). It's very easy to link up his rush combo into his 1-star blitz (IMHO, pretty strong) or his 3-hit combo forward special (which also is VERY damaging). Even though his natural damage input it's a lot weaker than the other versions, with a well placed combo he can chunk out 70% to 75% off from a standard full lifebar.


How to play with SOR1 Axel.

1) Abuse Grand Uppah. Many people might argue if his 1-star Blitz it's weaker than SOR2 one but in my opinion, this version of Grand Upper it's as good as SOR2's. 5 to 6-hit attack, good to chip damage against blocking enemies, pulls out decent damage, comboable, reliable. Bit on the short range,. though but still quite safe to use and abuse.

2) Abuse his standard rush combo. Since his range it's quite good, it's easier to get a standard beat 'em up run by using the normal combo. However, it's better to combine it either with Grand Uppah or f A special.

3) Always stay on the move. His speed is quite decent and allows him to be always moving all over the screen. He's not as quick as Blaze/Rudra/Skate but you still can walk perfectly well and avoid enemies or catch their moves.


The run & grab tactic could work alright for him but it's not so effective since his grab damage it's kinda puny but could be added to the whole set if you want to add variety or keep enemies away.

Feel free to add mroe stuff, I'll be playing later SOR2 Axel and SOR3 Axel.

Playing with SOR2 Axel now. Here's some input.

Movelist.

Axel Stone SOR2 version.

Normal attacks.

Rush combo - B B B B (SOR2 two short jabs, cross and double side kick, short range)
Back attack - B + C (SOR2 back punch)
Special - A (spinning dragon smash)
Special 2 - forward + A (multi-combo punches)
Special 3 - forward forward + A (Tatsumaki kick)

Jumping attacks.

Vertical jump attack - C then B (knocks down, SOR2 does a jumping frontal kick)
Jump attack - forward + C then B (knocks down. SOR2 long jumping kick, long range)
Diving attack - C then down + B (dives with his two knees in an awkward sexy (lol) pose, doesn't knock down and leaves enemy open to combo or grab).

Running attacks.

Blitz (0 - 1 star) - forward forward + B Grand upper (Axel dashes and hits the enemies repeatedly with an ascending uppercut).
Blitz 2 (2 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning punch attack (lounges forward in an ascending/descending pattern spinning while punching).
Blitz 3 (3 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning grand upper (dashes in the same ascending/descending pattern, spin punch ending in uppercut).

Grab attacks (get close to an enemy).

Vault over opponent - Grab then C, you can switch from grabbing in front or from behind.
One-hit frontal knockdown - Grab then B (does a nasty headbutt)
Rush attack - Grab, hold forward + B B B (does the knee bashes ends up with a thrid and fourth knee attack)
Backwards throw - Grab, hold backwards B (does a backflip launch).
Grab from behind - Hold from behind or vault opponent if grabbing in front then B (does a backwards Bodyslam).

Weapon special attacks.

Pipe/Bat/Plank - forward forward + B (launches with the short end of the stick then swipes the rod away, hits enemies from behind)
Sword/Katana - forward forward + B (SOR2 performs a rising dragon punch with sword in hand)


Overview.

This Axel has a lot less range than SOR1 version and it's slightly slower in the movement and attack input. He's still good enough to make effective combos with his 1-star blitz and his specials. I find him harder to play with since his range it's not so big and certain enemies with mid range attacks can trump him easily (say Electras or some bosses like Barbon).

His Grand Uppah here hits only 3 times but it's still damaging (he's nowhere as strong as it used to be in SOR2, though), comboable and his only abusable move in his attacks. Due of his 3 hit attacks, sometimes it won't be so satisfying to knock off a bunch of assholes at the same time like I use to do with Axel-1 but it's still resourceful.

His jump game it's a lot better than Axel-1, has better reach and good start up jump (press C then B immediately as you take off) that can trump some anti-air assholes like Donnies or Barbons if done correctly.

Damage input it's slightly bigger but not for much, grab game it's more damaging but I find his back grab (backwards bodyslam) kinda unsafe since he does a small hop a-la Ash when he's done. Not sure if has invincibility frames on it but I feel it awkward.

His melee weapon it's okayish, with his strength lying on the pipe mostly (he does the Axel-1's sworn downwards swipe, very fast and very safe, bit short range but quick enough to recover quickly. His running special it's pretty good good since it hits from the run then the swipe knocks the opponent giving a painful 2-hit combo. With knife he's lame, super short range and nothing special on it. I suggest to throw a knife instead of using it.

His fA special it's great to finish off enemies who doesn't block. With blocking enemies it's REALLY unsafe since enemies tend to block AND move away from it and then you're very vulnerable for counter-attacking. I still prefer to use Axel-1's more.

Overall in find him less resourceful than Axel-1 but still fun to play with. Relies way too much on his blitzes 1 and 2. Probly someone else can give better points than me here. Smile

Later on, going to play BK3 Axel.

And to finish the day, I played a mania run with BK3 Axel and finished it. Here's the stuff about him.


Axel Stone. BK3 version

Normal attacks.

Rush combo - B B B B (two short jabs, cross and double side kick, short range, VERY fast)
Back attack - B + C (back punch)
Special - A (spinning dragon smash)
Special 2 - forward + A (multi-hit combo)

Jumping attacks.

Vertical jump attack - C then B (does a jumping frontal kick)
Jump attack - forward + C then B (long jumping kick, long range, knocks down)
Diving attack - C then down + B (dives with his two knees in an awkward sexy (lol) pose, doesn't knock down and leaves enemy open to combo or grab).

Running attacks.

Blitz (0 - 1 star) - forward forward + B Grand upper (Axel dashes and hits the enemies repeatedly with an ascending uppercut).
Blitz 2 (2 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning punch attack (lounges forward in an ascending/descending pattern spinning while punching).
Blitz 3 (3 stars) - forward forward + B Spinning grand upper (dashes in the same ascending/descending pattern, spin punch ending in uppercut).

Grab attacks (get close to an enemy).

Vault over opponent - Grab then C, you can switch from grabbing in front or from behind.
One-hit frontal knockdown - Grab then B (does a nasty headbutt)
Rush attack - Grab, hold forward + B B B (does the knee bashes ends up with a third and fourth knee attack)
Backwards throw - Grab, hold backwards B (does a backflip launch).
Grab from behind - Hold from behind or vault opponent if grabbing in front then B (does a backwards Bodyslam).

Weapon special attacks.

Pipe/Bat/Plank - forward forward + B (launches with the short end of the stick then swipes the rod away, hits enemies from behind)
Sword/Katana - forward forward + B (performs a rising dragon punch with sword in hand)


Overview.

This Axel definitely departs completely from the other two for a very big different: He's VERY fast but also VERY weak! His movement speed it's as average as the others but his attacks are fairly lot faster, kinda as fast as BK3 Shiva, this allows him to recover quite quickly from attacks and keep the rushfest without a problem. His speed also allow him to pull out combos with ease.

However, all his damage input it's low, VERY low. I think even Blaze and Rudra does more damage. An Axel-1 or 2 would kill a beginner Galsia with his rush combo, Axel-3 doesn't. His B B B ffB combo would take around 35% of a full lifebar while his B B B fA combo would take 45% of a full lifebar at most. He definitely plays with the trope of the fast but weak type of character and requires tons of patience to win with him.

Another gripe I found was that his melee weapon handling it's SHIT. What the other two have as awesome, he has it as shitty. The pipe swing starts a lot slower (animation it's like Axel-1 but under the water) and takes like 3 frames to recover, same for the running attack. Damage it's the same as the others just simply crappy speed. Knife it's still shitty, standard sword it's quite slow too, but his running special still hits an enemy from behind while landing, which is pretty awesome.

He still has his good air game, good reach in his kick and trumps many attacks. However, his reach it's low, just like his SOR2 counterpart. Again, enemies with longer arms own him badly face to face.

His Grand Uppah it's quite different from the rest, this one has again like 6 to 7 hits on it and the super weaksauce uppercut launches the enemy upwards more (as someone mentioned above). And yes, playing with him in the SOR1 elevator it's lots of fun (excepting those annoying Haku-ohs that keep recovering in the air). You can own Abadede, Shiva or any enemy who loves to do specials to interrupt your attack without a problem... just that, at difference of Axel-1, it will take u forever to beat them.

All and all it's a dynamic character to play with but you need to be too patient since his damage it's pretty much like a schoolgirl with anemia. His weapon handling sucks, but if u don't use weapons then you'd be cool with that.


I think from all the three, Axel-1 it's the top of all of them. Has damage, speed, stamina, reach and technique.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  k0l3 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:45 pm

Axel is my favourite.
I guess he's the most balanced char of them all.

And the SoR1 v. is the best on my opinion too. He has good speed, range and average strenght.
And his ->A special move is way faster, stronger and don't let you so vulnerable as the punch combo + shoryiuken of the next versions.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Don Vecta on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:16 pm

I'm playing with Axel-1 again recently, and noticed something rather annoying of his Blitz-3, not sure if this was from the old version but playing v5.0a: The last hit of his spinning dashing punch knocks down enemies before he does his uppercut, which renders the whole move useless and even risky! Blitz-2 is exactly the same and it's reliable and damaging, but the missing uppercut in the Blizt-3 leaves him wide open to retaliation and trust me, AI enemies don't hesitate in making you eating shit!

Also, didn't mention how awesome is his sword special A: f + A. Blinks while in a stance then swipes off enemies for a huge chunk of damage all while completely invincible. AI tends to stay out of the way while doing it so it's a bit tricky to connect but you still can lure enemies on your range by doing a normal swipe then they'd try to retaliate but by then you'd be in your invincible stance and making them eat steel!

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  BigDarsh on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:21 am

I'm surprized you didn't notice it earlier! :p

3 * blitz sucks for every axel version since it knock down before the end. You have to be at the right range and the right angle to make miss that annoying knock down hit and have it fully connect; which is almost impossible on harder difficulties. (it was a pain in the ass to test the damage for those crappy moves). I just don't use stars system, and perform blitz manually to avoid that "upgraded" version of the move lol.

On a side note, it was already crappy in SoR3... and so in SoRV5.

Another interresting note about 2 * blitz. The 3 versions have it but do not share the same damage:
Axel 1: 52
Axel 2: 40
Axel 3: 46

That's another thing that make axel 1 one of the best version of the character, since his blitz 2* is safer than blitz 0*/1*, and deal better damage too (48 blitz 0*/1*).

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Shadow Fist King on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:51 pm

My take on all three versions of Axel:

SOR1 Axel: I find him to have fairly average attack strength, good reach, and a good forward-special. However, I don't care too much for his jump-kick; it's decent in terms of damage, but the way it looks (the fact that he's basically attacking with his knee instead of extending his foot like the other two versions) just turns me off aesthetically.

SOR2 AXEL: I consider him to be the physically strongest of the three, especially in regard to his Grand Upper. His forward-special (the Hurricane Kick-lookalike) comes across as looking very silly and not like Axel at all, although it's decent in terms of attack range.

SOR3 AXEL: This is the version I use most often when I play as Axel. His punching strength is average, and his Grand Upper seems slightly weak compared to his SOR2 version.

On a general note, his blitz attack with weapons, while chipping off a fair amount of life if the attack connects, leaves him open to counterattacks if he misses or it's blocked. When he swings the bat or pipe during his blitz attack, it doesn't have a whole lot of range (in contrast to Adam, who stabs forward with said weapons), and you put yourself at risk of being countered by other enemies, especially if you swing and miss. Regarding the sword, I don't like to use its blitz attack because Axel gets put in danger of being hit out of the air and the attack itself doesn't have a lot of horizontal range. Therefore, my personal strategy is to just not use weapons at all, or if I do, to not use blitz attacks with them.

Concerning Axel's unarmed blitz attack, I prefer to use it when it's at 2 stars because then I can spam it as much as I want in a combo style and also be quick about it. Very Happy Using it at 3 stars puts Axel in too much danger of, again, being hit out of the air.
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  WillyTheSquid on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 am

Took a while (a long, long while) for me to get any good with Axel. I just don't see why he's that popular a character. I really only play Axel1, who has the juicy f.SP triple-punch, good meaty punches, a suplex slam and that deeeelicious single-hit knockdown Y-button kick that's right up there with Adam's.

I'm wondering... does his back attack have any decent applications? It comes out fast and the damage seems good, but it lacks range compared to the Y-kick.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  bareknuckleroo on Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:06 pm

Axel was pretty good in SoR2, but that's mostly because Grand Upper had crazy priority (I think possibly even some invulnerability?), and in SoR3 he could do silly stuff like this:



Roo could do a more difficult version of this combo too (you had to move forward while punching because his back attacks moves you away from the enemy), although neither SoR3 Axel or Roo hit in front of them anymore with their back attacks in SoRR, so they can't do this. Edit: actually Axel doesn't hit in front with back attack in SoR3, I'm just being dumb. I only now notice the enemy faces the other way when Axel hits with the back punch, so it's hitting because he's standing so close to the enemy that the back attack's non-knockdown hit connects, not because he has a hitbox in front. Roo still used to hit in front with his, though.

I agree that Axel is overrated, particularly the weak SoR3 type. Dealing with enemy crowds is a lot tougher with such a limited movement blitz, and his 2 and 3 stars hit rather awkwardly. I can't stand SoR1 Axel's jumping attacks. His damage is great, but at least SoR2 and 3 have decent range on their jump kicks which helps for getting through crowds.


Last edited by bareknuckleroo on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Saven on Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Axel was wonderful in SOR2, not so much in 3 but still a very good character in that game.

SORR, with how the enemy AI is scripted and how much more aggressive it is compared to the originals, Axel is a lot more open to being punished than usual thanks to his vulnerabilities. Axel to me became a much more weaker character in SORR than before.

SOR1 Axel is the only one that I think is at a good level. SOR2 Axel was awful before the patch. But after the patch he has improved a lot, but still feels at a lower level than his SOR1 counterpart. SOR3 Axel....just absolute ass, pre-patch and post-patch. One of the worst characters in the game SOR3 Axel is.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Crash Dummie on Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:13 pm

Axel has always been a good, solid hand. The Ryu of the games if you will. His Grand Upper was a bit overkill in the actual SOR2, but he was still the most "basic" character you could play as.

He's still mostly the same in SORR, but I also feel his re-done SOR1 self is the best of the 3. Better damage, range and specials. His jumps aren't so good, but you can work around them for the most part.

He's a really solid character to learn the ropes of the game; no frills and easy to play as. But once you start getting it, you might want to move to a character that's more effective when played well, but who's harder to master, like Max.

Also, as much as I like the remake's SOR1's Axel, Adam is at least just as good, and also very easy to play as.

I don't really think Axel's a top tier character (certainly not his SOR 2 and 3 versions), but I do feel that a first time player should try him, and then experiment with the other characters.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  DarkThief on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:16 pm

I just don't see why he's that popular a character.
Same here...3 versions and none of them are any good.  I guess he is like Ryu (overhyped just for being the original hero) except that Ryu could actually handle himself.  I stick with Axel 2 simply because Axel 1 has no jump (which is a deal-breaker without mobility as well) and you can't use Grand Upper half the time because you're guaranteed to take a hit. It's a shame because once he gets in he can smash enemies like no other (combo+GU/fA or infinite) but even the most basic enemies can outrange him so easily (and if you see a Galsia 1 with bat you might as well press the police button). He handles like a brick (unresponsive and no mobility), he's especially weak against blockers and is the only character without a 32-point throw.

Without doubt the worst character in the game, even Ash handles better for me now.

He's a really solid character to learn the ropes of the game; no frills and easy to play as.
I wouldn't say that, he's full of flaws and extremely vulnerable. I'd still say Blaze was the best all-rounder, possibly Adam as well (even though speed-wise he handles poorly like Axel) and that Rudra is probably the easiest to play. (safe combo, near-unstoppable blitzes and magic)
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Shadow Fist King on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:39 pm

Crash Dummie wrote:Axel has always been a good, solid hand. The Ryu of the games if you will. His Grand Upper was a bit overkill in the actual SOR2, but he was still the most "basic" character you could play as.
If Axel is the Ryu, who's the Ken and who's the Sagat? Razz 

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Saven on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:29 pm

Shadow Fist King wrote:
Crash Dummie wrote:Axel has always been a good, solid hand. The Ryu of the games if you will. His Grand Upper was a bit overkill in the actual SOR2, but he was still the most "basic" character you could play as.
If Axel is the Ryu, who's the Ken and who's the Sagat? Razz 
Ken = Adam. Both are cool boss cats and arguably better than the main character themselves personality wise and coolness. Razz 

Sagat = Shiva. Both are god tier (excluding broken Akuma) in their respective games.
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Don Vecta on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:55 pm

Saven wrote:
Sagat = Shiva. Both are god tier (excluding broken Akuma) in their respective games.
Disagree. In SSF2X Sagat was strong but not god tier. I guess the only game I know for sure he was broken tier was in CVS2 and vanilla SFIV (heavily nerfed in the so many consequent versions of IV). In the rest, he was just strong, but usually high-mid tier.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  BigDarsh on Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:50 pm

Disagree. In SSF2X Sagat was strong but not god tier. I guess the only game I know for sure he was broken tier was in CVS2 and vanilla SFIV (heavily nerfed in the so many consequent versions of IV). In the rest, he was just strong, but usually high-mid tier.

I'm almost with you here Vecta. Sagat was designed as a boss (overpowered) but he never reach the status of God Tiers in any game (as far as I can tell). In SFIV, Akuma infinite combo/blockstun trap works like a charm on him (thanks to the P Linking) and Ryu is a little weaker than Sagat in this Game.

Honnestly, Sagat SFIV is one of the most powerfull Sagat ever to be made, but still not God Tiers (because of Akuma mostly).

While speaking of Cvs2 Sagat Down Fierce Punch it's totally broken (C Groove) but when you look at the whole roster, they are some other character that are totally broken (like Sakura or Vega the Dictator / Bison the Dictactor, in A Groove for example).

Here again, Sagat is overpowered, but still not God Tiers.

Only Akuma reach this state in a capcom game (as far as I can tell).

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  DarkThief on Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:42 pm

So I've been playing with Axel 2 quite a lot recently, and have gotten surprising results with him.

Here's how I managed to handle him:

Combo - abuse like hell, naturally. What you choose to end it with (throw, forward-A, standing-A, Grand Upper) depends on the situation.  Rolling around a lot is a big help to get enemies to come in range of it, as well as tricking them into doing vulnerable moves.

Throws - while they're the worst in the game for actual damage, they're very good at crowd control. The hitbox on both throws is quite large too, so throwing is the top priority whenever there's a crowd. (the slam as well, it hits all around and he appears to be safe when hopping back)

Jump kicks - The regular fly-kick is weak as hell (like Blaze 2) but really good for crowd control (like Blaze 2-3/Elle) so using it for knockdowns is strongly advised.  The stun kick is also real good when there's no anti-air around, so running into a crowd with that and following up with a throw is very effective. The vertical jump is pretty much situational use only.

Standing-A special - this is extremely important, and difficult to get right because it's over so fast. Use whenever you're about to take a hit (incoming projectiles/fly-kicks or mobs coming up behind etc.) and also as a deterrent, as it frightens mobs off.  It's also a nice offensive move against enemies that require jumps to kill (bikes, Jets, Zamza) and to set up kickboxers for chain slam.

Forward-A special - the key here is knowing when to use it, and it's not easy.  He does appear to be immune from the front (except projectiles), so it's all about positioning and reading the enemy situation to know if you have enough time/space to get one off.

Grand Upper - Like forward-A, it's all about knowing when it's safe to use (it's a much faster move but he's not immune at all). The final frame can counter some air attacks, but it's difficult to manage. 1-star version is good on enemies that require a longer reach, but doing it from a standing start makes it less likely to trick them.

Overall the key points are: manoevre a LOT for throws/combo (and to evade incoming air/projectile hits), prioritise throws/knockdowns in a crowd, always have your A-special ready to counter stuff and pick the right moment to use high-damage moves.

He's strong against anyone that doesn't block, notably Bear (blitz does work if you time it right, and you can forward-A if he starts hitting you at close range) and he does better than most against X because of the high-damage moves. His main nemesis (the Galsia-1 bat) can only be beaten with a running jump-kick (standing ones are pathetic just like Adam) or a well-timed A special (it comes out so fast you can fire it just as he swings).
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  BigDarsh on Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:58 pm

Very good analysis of Axel 2, I'm totally agreeing you, especially the part were you explain why his back drop toss is one of the best toss of the game for crowd control purpose (very fast, very safe, though low damage compare to judo toss).

I would just add this into the jump kick section:
It is not as good as Blaze 2 regarding Bosses like Jet , but it is still a pretty good jump kick for Crowd Control purpose as stated in your message.

As you explained, the whole thing about Axel 2 is to learn how to use Gran Upper, and Forward A Special safely to make him a lot more effective in battle, and IMHO, that is what make this character quite interesting to play (strategy cluster is as important as tactic cluster with this guy), even if, in the end, blocking opponents are a real chore to him (Shiva 3 Boss = ouch!).

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Solinarius on Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:50 pm

Ditto on the analysis, I like it very much. Makes me want to re-evaluate the thread for Elle, which really needs a rewrite.

The strategies look great in theory. I'll add that while Axel is invincible during the hop after slamming, you can still be flanked. If memory serves, slamming enemies around kickboxers was a bad idea.

Demonstrations would be cool, if possible!
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Don Vecta on Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:24 am

Solinarius wrote:Ditto on the analysis, I like it very much. Makes me want to re-evaluate the thread for Elle, which really needs a rewrite.

The strategies look great in theory. I'll add that while Axel is invincible during the hop after slamming, you can still be flanked. If memory serves, slamming enemies around kickboxers was a bad idea.

Demonstrations would be cool, if possible!

Actually, if possible, someone could demonstrate on a Survival run (even if they don't achieve beer status). Most important is to see how effective the character can be in intense crowd control situations, where I think a character should perform best.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  BigDarsh on Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:30 am

I'll add that while Axel is invincible during the hop after slamming, you can still be flanked.
Though, way better than Axel 3 Slam, Axel 2 is still vulnerable for few frames at the very end of the hop. If you want to check it out, just select Shiva 3 Boss (Mania) and Slam him to the ground, he can perform a flying kick to hit you during your recovery (not consistantly though).

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  DarkThief on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:02 pm

BigDarsh wrote:Though, way better than Axel 3 Slam, Axel 2 is still vulnerable for few frames at the very end of the hop. If you want to check it out, just select Shiva 3 Boss (Mania) and Slam him to the ground, he can perform a flying kick to hit you during your recovery (not consistantly though).

Hmm I dunno...whenever I play against Shiva 3 I do the grab (only solid tactic that works against him) and I always get enough time to hit the A-special before he fly-kicks right after.
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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  BigDarsh on Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:49 pm

My test was made using the regular side roll ( Down  Down ) after slamming Shiva to the ground, and it seems that Axel 3 recovery is too long to avoid the flying kick this way. (Or maybe my reflex are not sharp enough to perform, not to be exclude).

The thing is A special is "one command triggered", + "fully invincible from the very start", so it's way better than the roll in any case. Thank you for correcting me.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Axelfan on Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:47 pm

Big fan of Axel 3, all the way down to the sprites! He's got the speed, may be fairly weaker than his other two versions but I combo just about everything! I keep opponents at bay with the jump kick, and watch that special bar because Axel 3's dragon wing knocks the pressure off.

Jumping knee drop stuns, then a quick three hit combo that goes right into the dragon smash or the two or three star blitz moves....I'm a monster with Axel 3! Sometimes I even start out with the 3 hit combo, and add the 2 hit backhand onto it, and just dragon wing afterward for protection. With his classic stun window from the 3 hit combo I also go for the "3 hit loops" and I sometimes dragon smash after that.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  iceweb38 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:48 pm

It's rare to read people like to use BKIII versions of characters but it's always interesting to read why Smile

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  WillyTheSquid on Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:55 pm

I have been taking notes and getting my Axels on, but it seems there is barely a need for me to go in-depth since pretty much everything I wrote down has been expertly explained by other posters here. The OP is especially well done.

Now personally speaking, I can't stomach Axel2/3. Just not mobile enough, not enough reach, not enough damage output, most of their flashy moves leave you super vulnerable.

Axel1 is hella fun to play, but he never seems to do nearly as well as my other mains.
- I like Axel1's air game. Now there's something you probably never read on these forums before... Wink
- His damage output: OMFG.
- Good speed and reach.
- Y-knockdown move is great, as good as Adam's and WAY better than that gimmicky double-kick that the other two Axels have. One of the best of its kind the game, if you ask me.

Wish he also had that running hurricane kick thing Axel2 has, but he's already so much better than the other two that the difference in overall effectiveness would be too great.

If a new patch ever comes out...:
...(or a data editor I can use on Linux, aka "keep dreaming"), I really would like to see Axel2/3's reach and Axel3's damage boosted. I know that would break the mold of the original trilogy versions but SoRR is a different beast altogether and it has been for a while now. AI is different, extra moves, extra modes...

Balancing the game internally just seems to be the logical thing to do to me. Right now Blaze1/2/3, Adam, Max, Zan & Skate2 (in no particular order) > Axel1 >>> Axel2 >>> Axel3, which doesn't seem right to me.
Don't have to be major overhauls, just boosting playability to make Axel3 and to a lesser extent Axel2 a viable character on all difficulties for all players.

But you already know all of this...

I guess I just need to start watching videos of other people playing Axel to get a feel for it. It's not like I haven't clocked enough hours to learn how to use him right... and the results are disappointing. Time for a fresh new approach. Anyone got some protips on how to use him when compared to chars like Blaze(2/3), Shiva, Max, Skate2 or Rudra? Cause my regular schtick ain't working at all.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

Post  Don Vecta on Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:05 pm

Boy, you're gonna love the CajNatalie's patched versions... especially Axel 1 and 2.

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Re: In-Depth Character Discussion: Axel (3 Versions)

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